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Date 20:00 UTC on Tuesday 13 December 2022 - 60 minutes.   


  • FHIR Terminology Services and Resources
  • FHIR Profiles & Terminology Binding

Discussion items



OwnerNotes & Actions
1Welcome and introductions2

Recording, notes & attendance.

Check questions in Zulip and SNOMED International #snomed-hl7-fhir

2Previous Meetings0
3Other Meetings5

Recent events:

HL7 Australia Connectathon - Dec 1 & 2.   Will be R4   Questionnaires being a main agenda item (not strong Terminology focus).   Questionnaire rendering capability was demoed.   See

NZ Connectathon Mon 5 Dec Health Terminology Server (Ontoserver) Connectathon run by CSIRO followed by joint standards workshop - "Escape from burning Platforms with SNOMED on FHIR" with PJ and AK.  Part of Digital Health Week (Rotorua)    Followed by standards workshop - SNOMED on FHIR.   Wide ranging topics (eg Terminology Binding), TBC.

Upcoming events:

SNOMED International Event w/b Dec 14 : Implementation Webinar - Terminology Binding in Questionnaires (FHIR resource).  Link for Implementation webinar registration:

Other Regular Meetings:

HL7 Group TSMG (meeting Wed PM ET every other week) - Terminology Service Management Group (HTA Thursday AM is now a subgroup of the TSMG).   2022-05-17 RH Joint session with Vocab at last business meeting.  2022-06-14 Group has approved minimum capabilities for terminology servers.  Now looking at bigger/better HL7 Terminology Server 

4CDS Systems (Clinical Decision Support)10

OpenMRS Project.   Are there any open source CDS systems out there?

5Discharge Reports15Marie-Alexandra Lambot 

Modular Discharge Reports - MAL looking at the Encounter resource.

DK work being done in Europe, see x-eHealth  (ending end Nov) specifications for sharing health data across Europe.   FHIR IGs for this are still being written - can we have a contact point there, DK to supply to MAL

6Clinicians on FHIR
Marie-Alexandra Lambot 

Training and Resources for Clinicians

MAL planning on making something available Q1 2023 Jon Zammit involved.

7Allergy Guide Examples

Patients with multiple symptoms - is not obvious how to do this in FHIR.  The condition resource does not lend itself to symptoms.   There are examples of using the Observation Resource, but seems "sketchy"  

Both Condition and Observation Resource have ways of recording who is making the observation (see "performer").   

PJ - This should be attached to an Encounter.  See  which has a 0..* Reason which takes a  

RH "Presenting Complaint in the patient's own words"  DK before there is an Encounter, there is a Service Request (in R4 has reasonCode and reasonReference, but in R5 there is just a reason which is a CodeableReference)

8FHIR & CTS220Daniel Karlsson 

FHIR & CTS2 : Discussion in EU on cross border information sharing (has been running on CTS2 for some time) moving to FHIR.  Would require a FHIR service to be made available.   IG publishing would be based on a FHIR Server.  

See has FHIR R4 support according to that website.

9R5 changes suggested around specifying language using BCP-47 15

See Tuesday meeting item #6

Changes for R5  and check on use of dialect in x form in ECL Specification Appendix C:  Appendix C - Dialect Aliases

Note that where a language reference set pulls from more than one language, the BCP-47  tag could potentially missing out the <lang> element and start directly with "x-".  Options for referring to multiple languages: could be done either with a * (see ) or with a comma separated list to indicate a priority order (although this isn't supported by the FHIR parameter (unless the server went out of it's way to allow for this), or use the accept-language header).  Use case is in the displayLanguage input parameter to a ValueSet $expand operation

2022-08-31 ML CSIRO attempting to get R5 compliant Ontoserver ready in time for HL7 Connectathon.

2022-10-04 With this page moving to it is no longer subject to the ballot process.  Instead a "TSMG" ticket should be created.  Daniel Karlsson and Rob Hausam will progress this. 

Also tracking R5 changes to concept map - see   Peter G. Williams to check SI intention for R5 compliance.

2022-10-18 DK EHealth Working Group on Semantics - discussion on cross border infrastructure based on CDA.  Suggestion that it could move to FHIR for new specifications/developments eg Lab Reports.

2022-11-02 RB Rob will check the status and how we can help it move

10SNOMED URI Specification
Peter G. Williams 

Discussion around URIs for module composition.

Also URI for SNOMED languages eg Post Coordinated Expressions.   Discussed and agreed but not yet officially published.

2022-10-18 With the departure of Linda Bird, the chairing of the SNOMED Languages Working Group will be taken up by the rest of the Implementation Support Team.



Machine Readable Concept Model (applies to both pre and post coordinated content)


Going forward:  suggestion that PJ and RH expose both the MRCM and the capabilities of ECL 2.0 with the wider HL7 and FHIR Communities.  See slides on ECL 2.0 hereML more generally this is a refinement axis which is represented as two things - the attribute and the range of values that that attribute can take.

2022-11-1 ECL 2.0 can retrieve MRCM refsets content, the question is how to return them as FHIR resources (structure map?)

Using implicit concept maps may be an option to add operations such as get acceptable attributes or get range

12Support for other CodeSystems in Snowstorm.10

Confirmation that SI will be adding some support for other CodeSystems based on leveraging the existing HAPI library support for such things.  Will be limited to the FHIR API (not the "native" Snowstorm API, except perhaps augmenting our return for ICD-10 maps to include the term associated with the code).  This Will allow us to host the UK Extension due to the requirements of their extensive maps.   

Targeting August release of Snowstorm.  Plan is to contribute code back where enhancement is required.

2022-08-23 See (in use by India)

2022-10-18 PWI Pull request for this work to be merged into MAIN Snowstorm, priority of this under discussion.

13Cardinality on Designation.use "Updated cardinality of designation.use"

Expected to be part of R5.

Could we offer Use of BCP-47 + designation.use for review by the HL7 Vocab Group Rob Hausam? Targeting 9 - 13 meetings.

2022-10-04 Designation.Use extension still required for specific use cases eg consumer definitions.

2022-11-1 Archive

14Post-coordination Expressions on FHIR

2022-02-22:  Presentation:

Proposal might include using side-effects which some might be sensitive to.

Runtime maintenance is required. Is it possible to reuse the existing API in order to standardize the approach?

A Code System Supplement may be used to hold a set of postcoordinated expressions as FHIR concepts

  • This approach used by Ontoserver so that they are "known" to the Terminology Server so that $expand can be used without considering all possible PCEs.  Not that some clients may not be able to process PCEs so the CS Supplement allows these to be kept separate.  Michael Lawley will raise ticket to "Add parameter to ValueSet $expand to specify Code System Supplements to be included" (would need to be compatible with code system that the ValueSet is being expanded against)
  • "No requirement for a designation"

CodeSystem/$validate-code operation could be used to validate the expression

  • Yes (doesn't need previous knowledge of the PCE, similarly for $lookup

Could calling CodeSystem/$lookup automatically create expression concepts in the supplement, to be returned in ECL queries for analytics? Or use PATCH?

  • Probably not, see use of Supplement above.   Yes use of PATCH seems reasonable (PUT a whole new version more common, but PATCH might allow for finer grained updates ie not having to re-submit the entire cohort of expressions).   ML: Custom operation might be useful here to add to the codeSystem and update the ConceptMap in one go.

ConceptMap/$translate could translate an expression to a single identifier to support more limited clinical record systems.  Could this work in real time, automatically creating entries as required?

  • ML: Use a local CodeSystem for the expression identifiers and a concept map to link them together.

2022-05-17 KK Were tickets raised around clarifying questions?   2022-05-31 ML Taking an action to raise a ticket for expand so that you can specify one or more CodeSystem Supplements to be used in that expansion. "Expressions already exist as concepts in the given CodeSystem implicitly, Therefore they can be used in a CodeSystem Supplement.   The rules for CodeSystem Supplements state that they can only be used with Concepts that already exist in the CodeSystem"  "An expression is not adding a concept to a CodeSystem, it is just expressing something that is already there"


2022-06-28 KK would like an agenda item added to next meeting (1 month time) to discuss a couple of strawmen proposals.

2022-07-26 KK walking through the postcoordination workflow (link above).

CodeSystem supplement for expression library, ConceptMap to map between expressions and fixed-length generated identifiers. ConceptMaps need explicit ValueSets for source (expressions) and target (generated ids).

What should be the system of the generated identifiers, should these identifiers be SCTID(-like)? ML: Would use UUIDs rather than SCTIDs.

A POST on $expand would allow composing a value set with the dependent SNOMED CT edition and the post-coordination supplement and the be filtered with any relevant ECL (for example).

RH: we're not creating new concepts (new meaning) but rather a new identifier from something that is already SNOMED defined meaning.

Having the generated id as a property on the concepts in the supplement would allow:

  • the alternate id would be returned for any $expand operation including the supplement, possibly filtered by ECL
  • an expand on a ValueSet composed of the supplement and supplemented CodeSystem filtered by the alternate id property would return the expression.

Alternatively, an additional CodeSystem for the generated ids could be created where the expression could be provided as properties.

2022-08-23 We'll pick this up when Linda Bird is next available for a Wednesday 10:00UTC call.

2022-09-06 KL worked through SNOMED CT Postcoordination Workflow (Discussion)

ML Would a refset of PCEs represent a Code System Supplement?

PGW - Archive Above Discussion.

2022-11-1 KK Will separate the draft documentation between the part that explains the post coordinated expression storage in the code system supplement from the assignment of an alternative identifier, in order to work on the 2 problems separately.

KK: How to assign an alternate ID to the expression using a concept map, how to reference the "value set" of all expressions in the supplement.

Discussion: With R5 a map may not be necessary? (not confirmed, extension?), however the guide will target R4. The extension "code-system-alternate" is available in R4, it might not be valid in supplement, maturity level 1. DK: Concept map may be a cleaner solution.

ML RB: It is not necessary to have a value set to create a concept map from Expressions to Identifiers.

RB: Will try to find out more on the extension.

15Upcoming R5 changes

Discussion about proposed federation.  ML Doesn't work so well with SNOMED CT because there's not a single authoritative source due to country extensions (and multiple versions being released).  Use case for this is mainly in creation of IGs.  Agreement that what a conformant server should be able to state in Capability Statement is helpful.   ML Touchstone test script artefacts need investment.  See

See also

16 Nov Update RH: Updates in for next ballot (not January now).

8 Feb RH: Next ballot confirmed May (deadline March 6, since extended 2 - 3 months)

8 March RH Community being polled on preferred approach to next release from three options: 1. R5 Release with additional Normative content (ie in 2023) 2. Hold R5 3. New content, but not new normative content (looking most popular option).   See

22 March 2022 RH Expecting September Ballot (hoping for sooner, prior to the working group meeting? - RH)

2022-05-17 RH Ballot expected later. Content freeze Aug 21

2022-8-23 RH R5 Deadline now September 4  

  • Rob Hausam please create relevant tracker to take forward the additions marked green in this page:  Changes for R5  2022-10-04 See above re DK + RH taking this forward.
  • Peter G. Williams merge this agenda item with similar one above.

2022-11-1 RB: Publication is expected after February 2023

16New change proposals for $validate-code

G Grieve have created new HL7 Jira tickets:

Grahame Grieve: $validate-code should return system | version | code when display is returned

Grahame Grieve: $validate-code should return an operation outcome with the full details of issues found, including paths

Grahame Grieve: $validate-code and $expand should have a parameter for related value sets and code systems

Grahame Grieve: $validate-code and $expand need a session parameter (as optimisation where ValueSet may need to be uploaded for a series of calls)

Grahame Grieve: Clarify the use of fragment  (this is a discovered issue from the same session, relating to the first of the tasks above)

ML - general principle that services should echo back the details they've been sent to process.

PJ - CodeableConcept (with multiple codings) will require multiple responses.  ML - call multiple times with single codes as a workaround.

2022-05-03 PJ Agreement to add "Operation Outcome" as a way of returning more detail.

2022-10-18 FHIR-33944 is still showing as being in Triage?

2022-11-1  The first 2 issues have been "Applied", the other 3 are "Triaged" (not in the ballot for R5)

17Topics for Terminology Binding Stream

Collecting topics for TB stream here, with a view to having a call when there's sufficient material

FamilyMemberHistory - how is "no family history of X" best represented?

FreshDesk ticket question on Allergy substance cross field validation.  DK: Mappings to other information models, is that helpful?

Oct 5 2021 Request for input from nutrition CRG.

8 Feb 2022 MAL Patient Care group proposing the use of an extension (specified by Daniel) to represent Allergy Type to add non-allergic hypersensitivity.  MAL wondered about allowing a Codeable Concept there rather than a Code to allow for greater expressivity.   Resource not planning on being Norminative in R5.

2022-11-1 DK: Immunizations may be a good candidate for future discussion MAL: can present advances. DK: Also, Specimen SNOMED vs Specimen resource.

18Publishing SNOMED codes in IGs and licencing conditions.

Licensing issues for IGs referring to SNOMED codes. Is this written down anywhere with some sort of rigour?

Consider the licence statement that is presented when accessing the browser. Should something similar be mandated for inclusion in any document published? What if a patient's medical record were to be published?

Update 12 Jan - "One Page Policy" to be discussed internally.   HL7 agreement indicates other parties would require affiliate licence unless they restricted their usage to the Global Patient Set.

26 Jan Question from PJ about inclusion of COVID Vaccine concepts in the GPS (advised that it is only released yearly)  FYI Rory Davidson See also MF discussion here.  SuzyR will follow up.  See also early preview page.

06 April: SR covid vaccines have been/will be incorporated into July release. They will be in GPS when ready. 

8 Feb 2022 This was discussed at a CSRM meeting - Peter G. Williamsfollow up with Suzy RoyDK Also do we specify boilerplate copyright statement?  This should also be specified in our IG (or referenced).

2022-04-19 Beta release of the IPS sub-ontology (which will include relationships but not axioms)  see due for Tues 3 May.    ML concerned that having the codes in a different CodeSystem breaks interoperability - further discussion required on this point internally Kai Kewley Alejandro Lopez Osornio Suzy Roy

2022-11-1 RB: For the IPS Guide the copyright messages were reviewed, and approved by Suzy:

Possible valid copyright statements used in IPS Implementation Guide, select and adapt the appropriate one depending on the content:

  1. The SNOMED International IPS Terminology is distributed by International Health Terminology Standards Development Organisation, trading as SNOMED International, and is subject the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International Public License. For more information, see SNOMED IPS Terminology
  2. The HL7 International IPS implementation guides incorporate SNOMED CT®, used by permission of the International Health Terminology Standards Development Organisation, trading as SNOMED International. SNOMED CT was originally created by the College of American Pathologists. SNOMED CT is a registered trademark of the International Health Terminology Standards Development Organisation, all rights reserved. Implementers of SNOMED CT should review usage terms or directly contact SNOMED International:
  3. This value set includes content from SNOMED CT, which is copyright © 2002+ International Health Terminology Standards Development Organisation (IHTSDO), and distributed by agreement between IHTSDO and HL7. Implementer use of SNOMED CT is not covered by this agreement
19Language Reference Sets in FHIR

Mechanisms for working with Languages

Designation extension

24 August DK Added pull request to Snowstorm  here

Implementation by ML using existing fields and specifying LangRefset in displayLanguage parameter with "preferredForLanguage" code and wildcard  Eg$expand?displayLanguage=*-x-sctlang-20581000-087109&_format=json&url=

Oct 5 Release of Ontoserver 6.5.0 which includes support for language reference sets as above.

Next Steps: How to promote - could we present at a Vocab call?   (1530 ET Thursdays - may clash with SI Languages call)

8 Feb 2022 DK added Designation Extension into the SNOMED on FHIR IG see

20SNOMED FHIR Implementation Guide

Implementation Guide for using SNOMED CT with FHIR.

IG Documentation:

Also look at the sample IG see build


2022-11-1: No news, check in the next call.

2022-11-15  Suggestion to set page per meeting list to work through.  Setting up one or two HTML style pages that could then be copied and modified and then use meetings to tackle more difficult content and review.  Finding best publishing location, cross referenced between

Pairings - Kai, Peter, Marie, Daniel, Rob

Top Topics

  • What are the various Resources in terms of how they relate to SNOMED CT (Link to Follow the yellow brick code presentation).  
  • ECL in FHIR (intensional ValueSets being less brittle)
  • Languages
  • Terminology Binding (General Approaches)
  • IPS (GPS)
  • FAQs eg how to recover historical assertions using Map
  • Post Coordination & Transformation
  • Relevant changes in R5 eg Concept Map (correlation changes)


Example markdown page that could be copied and modified:

Work to be presented for 13 December (payment will be made in Glorytm)

Peter & Kai - ECL in FHIR  (Update:   Used  for collaborative markdown editing. )

Daniel & Marie - Allergy & Intolerance : (Update: Menu item added for extensions, confirmed examples are useful and appropriate for the Allergy Guide. )

Rob - IPS

  • Peter G. Williams contact Ole Vage & Feijke re Translation Group and contributing to IG relating to use of languages in FHIR.

2022-12-13 ECL Page reviewed - MarkDown not displaying the same as it did the IDE, revisit.

Looking for some more structure that could be applied to the apparently unordered list of ValueSets (which is machine generated).  Any documentation on how to do that would be appreciated.   Other IG's we could compare to are : &  ( also )

Looked at and the animal breeds which is extensionally defined with a complete set of animal breeds, most of which were inactivated in the International Edition in 20210731 and reactivated in the Veterinary Extension.

  • Peter G. Williams raise tickets for the usefulness of the usage page and also for the animal breeds that if they referenced the Veterinary Extension then the concepts would be active there, and a an ECL or ISA definition could be used in the ValueSet

Expanding ValueSets across multiple Editions.

Discussion on * version wildcard. (relates to a Zulip discussion on expanding a ValueSet against multiple editions to give a superset?)  DK How could we specify the latest version of multiple modules.   Answer*   (ie not specifying the version) or*/version/*  to include concepts from previous versions.

For use in the module / version URI.   Existing workaround is to use multiple include elements for each version.

7 Sept ML Sticking point - what do we do with incompatible properties eg active/inactive between two different versions - the most recent?

Use case: primarily being able to validate codes that might exist in different editions.   Secondarily, being able to validate code received in a historical record ie where codes were valid at time of data entry.

25 Jan 2022: Snowstorm will already look across all Editions loaded when a codesystem version is not specified, eg:$validate-code?coding=|443971000124108 only exists in the US Edition.  (See also the History proposals for ECL)

2022-05-17 ML Ontoserver supports ValueSets that draw from more than one version, so you could use that to compute the difference between one version and another.

2022-11-1: DK: Snowstorm does not yet support multiple include elements in different versions for the SNOMED code system. ML: The semantic is not yet clear, how to decide in which versions you check properties, parents, etc. Run separately for all inclusions and join the results. May need to understand better the use cases.

22Long Term Home for Terminology Information

Rob Hausam (primarily Vocab WG)

Long Term Home for Terminology Information that can be maintained independently of FHIR versions.


7 Sept Relates to problematic page   PWI discuss internally - done.

Update 21 September 2021 - General agreement that that page can be removed.  Is out of date and not serving useful purpose.

Update 25 Jan 2022 - HL7 intend to make The THO a home for all terminologies and valuesets.

Next Time: Move to archived discussion, make note in IG

23IPS / GPS progress

IPS Terminology Subontology - beta went out 2 weeks ago, now in feedback until June 30.  Publication for the end of the year.  ML expressed issues around not being conformant to RF2 spec but is missing module dependency file.   ModuleId is present but invented Concept.    ALO/SR suggested ML give that as feedback.     

GPS expected towards the end of September. Currently working with contributing organisations, which will then go to internal authoring.   ALO GPS may turn out to be less useful and focus could be on IPS in future.

2022-10-18  See   also available in MLDS, published 2021-09-30, based on INT 20210731   PWI will follow up for 2022's copy.   SR IPS targeting Nov 30 2022.   Sub-ontology steering committee (internal) meeting next week.

2022-11-1: RB ML have received a new beta version and are testing. ML: The effective time in MDRS may be pointing to July instead of November. No MRCM content, it is required fur the type of the concrete domain attributes.

24Any Other Business

Quick Questions:  

2022-09-20 What was the outcome of the IPS Subontology feedback?

Next meeting - should have clarity about what the IPS is going to look like.  See also

Allergy Guide Examples.

Potential Items for Discussion

OwnerNotes & Actions
SNOMED Family of Languages

Impact of proposed changes (eg text searching in ECL) on FHIR. Questions around which language reference sets to use when there are multiple, especially partial/overriding context (referred to MAG for discussion)

8 Sept The FHIR specification does not specify a particular version of ECL, so we assume the latest.  Any enhancements added to ECL will be immediately relevant and available in FHIR.   Note that these latest additions while targeting descriptions are a concept filter, so display options (language etc) will affect the output of those concepts.   How about the filter parameter though, especially since ECL wo (ld allow multiple filters in multiple/different languages.

  • Michael Lawley Suggested ticket: Parent and Child properties to (optionally?) support the Coding type.
Specify CodeSystem in FSH
FSH apparently has no way of specifying the version of a CodeSystem. Daniel checking the ANTLR spec.
API for FHIR Resource ↔ Post coordinated expression mapping

API for FHIR Resource to SNOMED Expression

  • Daniel Karlsson Thought there might be some documentation from CIMI on this. Also notes from DMarkwell about constructor bindings.
  • Peter G. Williams Pull these notes into confluence - can we mention it in the IG?
Looking up an SCTID in an unknown module

Problems when dependencies do not align. Multiple code system resources represent multiple editions / versions.

ML: See code parameter to code system search. Should return code systems (ie versions) where that code is defined. International concepts would appear in every edition known to the server.

eg /CodeSystem?system=htp://


See Discussion on Global Patient Set (GPS)
FHIR Shorthand


$lookup operation - properties returned

Using  I noticed that both Ontoserver and SnowStorm return a SNOMED CT $lookup property for effectiveTime, which I don't see listed, as one of the SNOMED CT properties in the FHIR R4 specification at Should we create a Jira TIcket to add this?

Completed -

Use of url parameter15

CodeSystem "class vs instance" in url parameter between CodeSystem and ValueSet operations.

CodeSystem is understood.

In Valueset, url is the ValueSet url for example url = allows for the version URI to be used as stated in The base URL is either , or the URI for the edition version, in the format specified by SNOMED International in the SNOMED CT URI Specification.

The ValueSet version valueSetVersion is just some string identifier eg a timestamp or 0.1.0

ECL in the Valueset Expression Extension10

Check whether SNOMED ECL is (or should be) registered as a MIME type (as per RFC 4289/BCP 13), or alternatively added to the expression-language code system and value set, for use in the valueset-expression extension used with the ValueSet resource.

For example, HL7 have registered application/json+fhir

This is useful for a ValueSet extension which allows any language to be used to define the selection criteria for an intensional definition using a MIME type. This group has no current reason to use that extension given the existing core specification support for implicit ValueSet definition and the support within the compose element.

RDF community may have an interest.

Update 2 June RH: Existing small valueset extended in BCP13 (existing known codes could be published as a CodeFragment). Vocab Working Group discussion ongoing.

Behaviour on Lookup10

What properties are returned?

Discussion: Both Ontoserver and Snowstorm are returning EffectiveTime which is not listed here (unlike other SNOMED specifics):

Point of interest: Grahame's server returns a copyright property.

Update 7 April - Question about whether this is required / desirable?

Concluded Discussion

See also FHIR Terminology Services Discussions

OwnerNotes & Actions
Terminology Capabilities

Terminology Capabilities: Default SNOMED Edition for a Server. Suggestion to invite Graham for a wider discussion. Resource is still at maturity 0.

11 August The resource is based on instances of code systems. Difficult to make statements about code systems generally, or specific SNOMED editions, etc. Will start a Zulip discussion on this. Michael Lawley Then potentially invite Grahame for a future discussion?

25 August It has been agreed that this resource will now have maturity level 1

New parameters proposed for streamlining operation of expand and validate code
Grahame Grieve


8 Sept 20 Is there a Jira ticket ?   Rob says Grahame implemented this.

12 Jan:  RH update made to GG Server.   Documentation (assuming required) still outstanding.

FHIR Server Federation10

Use case for fall back lookup when server does not know the answer to any particular question eg a façade server which has knowledge of all services it could potentially delegate to.

Aug 25: New capabilities in HAPI to allow delegation to an external terminology server.

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