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Date and time

2019-12-16 20.00 UTC

Objectives

Discuss how to progress a resolution to the Observable/Evaluation procedure demarcation issue.

  • Evaluation procedure use of role groups
  • Briefing note for MF, CMAG and other AGs

Discussion items

See below.


ItemDescriptionOwnerNotesAction
1Welcome & apologies
  • Remember recording!



2Conflicts of interest

None stated



3Minutes from previous meetingDaniel Karlsson


3.5London meetingDaniel KarlssonThe schedule is already becoming full, will try to put Observables discussions into EAG and PaLM respectively.

4

Observables and Evaluation procedures

Since Observables were introduced into SNOMED CT the demarcation between Observables and Evaluation procedures has been a potential source of variability of SNOMED CT use. In order to progress this issue the group need to agree on what knowledge is needed to inform any future decision.

2019-11-18:

<<404684003 |Clinical finding (finding)| : 363714003 |Interprets (attribute)| = << 386053000 |Evaluation procedure| ==> 7148 concepts

...but also

1350 hits for <<386053000 | Evaluation procedure (procedure) |: [2..*] { 260686004 |Method (attribute)| = <<129265001 |Evaluation - action (qualifier value)| }

3 hits for <<386053000 | Evaluation procedure (procedure) |: [2..*] { 260686004 |Method (attribute)| = <<129266000 |Measurement - action (qualifier value)| }

611 hits for <<386053000 | Evaluation procedure (procedure) |: [2..*] { 246093002 |Component (attribute)| = * }

2019-12-16:

Some more exploration of existing Evaluation procedure content:

(<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [2..*] { * = * }) MINUS <<363679005 |Imaging (procedure)|

10 000-ish Evaluation procedures have 2 or more role groups...

<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [2..*] { 246093002 |Component| = * }

611 have 2 or more Components, indicating that it could be a panel. However, many examples are just strangely modeled and likely not intended to be panels. Thus, it's not straight forward to identify panel-like procedures among the Evaluation procedure. Sometimes, e.g. 442553005 | Measurement of chloride in peritoneal fluid specimen (procedure) |, additional Components are inherited from ancestors.

(<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [2..*] { 246093002 |Component| = * }) MINUS <<122869004 |Measurement procedure|

Even non Measurement procedures have multiple Components...

<<386053000 |Evaluation procedure (procedure)| : [3..*] { 246093002 |Component| = * }

A few have 3 or more components, many of which are in fact panels, but again likely not all of them. E.g. see <67899004 | Complement component, classic pathway (substance) |.

Briefing note should include:

  • Current status in regard to overlap
    • Actual concepts
    • Concept models
  • Current status in regard to modeling of Evaluation procedures
  • Orders and results use of SNOMED CT
    • Actual use of Evaluation procedure concepts for reporting results
    • Actual use of Evaluation procedure concepts for ordering
  • Panels vs. single-measurement observables/procedures


5Next meeting

Next meeting is 2020-01-27 (moved from Jan 20 due to holiday) 20.00UTC



6AOB




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3 Comments

  1. Daniel,

    I will not be able to attend today's meeting.

    Daniel Karlsson

    best,

    Xavier

  2. Daniel,

    I believe that we have resolved nutrition observables for the moment. Is there something that you require from us for this meeting?

    Kind regards,

    Donna Pertel

    1. Donna Pertel , no not unless you feel the need. Happy that you got your Observables sorted out.