Conference Call Details

Meeting time is 2019-09-24 20:00 UK; 15:00 US ET

Meeting ID: 337-227-676

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Discussion items

Introductions and apologies

Minutes of previous meeting
Matters arising from the minutes

Reviewed IV fluid concept progress in request browser, Toni completed multiple requests.

Reviewed accidental puncture of dura, currently: Accidental puncture of dura during anesthesia (disorder) SCTID: 781129002

Need synonyms such as "Accidental dural puncture"

Also "PDPH" as synonym for post dural puncture headache

SNOMED updates

Close date Oct 3 2019 for next major release in January 2020.

Malaysia meeting: October 2019 - SNOMED International Business Meetings

Authoring tool upgrade

Vaccine modeling

Devices project update in Malaysia

Anesthesia DAM - Progress and term binding

HL7 Anesthesia DAM R1

  • Goal end of October
ICU FlowsheetsSteven Dain

"Injection site" vs "IV site" - seem different semantically

Next meeting

Tuesday, November 26, 2019

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  1. Hello Patrick, 

    In response to the enquiry as to why 398042001 |Accidental dural puncture (disorder)| was inactivated: during the QI project and cleanup of Puncture wound disorder concepts it was noticed that 398042001 |Accidental dural puncture (disorder)| was modelled with an IS A “complication of anesthesia” - the FSN made no mention of procedure therefore did not reflect the modelling per SI editorial guidelines, the concept is then ambiguous.  A new concept was created to reflect the complete meaning = 781129002 |Accidental puncture of dura during anesthesia (disorder)|. Noted that Accidental dural puncture is not synonymous with Accidental puncture of dura during anesthesia so will not be accepted. Accidental puncture could result from a number of factors, not limited to anesthesia. thanks, Monica

  2. Monica, Patrick

    Shame that we didn't get to hear of these changes from the QI project before they happened.  It  would have perhaps been a better solution if  398042001 | Accidental dural puncture (disorder) had been remodelled as an IS A 116224001 | Complication of procedure. 

    The unfortunate effects of the new term 781129002 | Accidental puncture of dura during anesthesia ( disorder) is that not all dural punctures occur during anesthesia, and we discussed some possible examples in the last CRG meeting. It also means that the synonym terms have been inactivated - one of the synonyms for 398042001 | Accidental dural puncture (disorder) being "dural tap" which is by far the commonest clinical language referral to the concept

    Haven't quite worked out the best way of requesting changes to remedy the situation yet (and I am away on holiday at the moment) but might be helpful if we could have a discussion on how to get round the problems.

    Best wishes


    1. Hi Andrew, Happy to discuss. Let's set up a call when you are back. Monica

  3. Hi Patrick and Monica,  I agree with both of you.  It  would be best to see  Accidental dural puncture (disorder) modeled as an IS A 116224001 | Complication of procedure.  I suppose to do this we need to give Accidental dural puncture (disorder) a new SCTID to acheive what we need

    Some examples of accidental dural puncture not during anesthesia include:

    accidental dural puncture during epidural steroid administration

    accidental dural puncture during chemotherapy administration

    accidental dural puncture during placement of epidural electrodes

    these 3 examples should be post-coordinated of accidental dural puncture