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14 May 2019 2000- 2100UTC

Meeting Details:

Information on using Zoom: Starting with ZOOM




  • Page will be updated with summary notes from meeting.
  • Please see recording for full details.


Discussion items (In draft)

1WelcomeCathy Richardson
  • Attendees list

2Apologies/conflicts of interest
  • Apologies as noted
  • Declarations of interest

  • Minutes of meetings

4Action listCathy Richardson

Update on current work items

  • Administrative content
    • Email has been sent to group on how to progress. Given responses provided proposal on way forward to be crafted by Monica Harry and Sheree Hemingway to be sent for comment.
  • Context values for action
    • On hold, seeking internal input.

6O/E and C/O contentSheree Hemingway
7Clinical core proposal: input on suggested contentCathy Richardson
8Any other businessALL
  • Meeting space for October- have requested a 1 1/2 - 2 hour spot only given duration of previous meetings.
  • Next meeting 11th June 2019 2000UTC

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  1. CORE content thoughts

    • A -- Derivative concepts (non-CORE)
      • 1) completely (predictably) derivative: can be generated or maintained completely automatically – 3 kinds of "derivativeness"
        • - derivative children (e.g., most lateralized concepts, derived by instantiating the lateratily attribute of the non-lateralized parent)
          • other such attributes: severity (?)
        • - derivative ancestors (e.g., all intermediate medicinal product concepts (MP, MP only, MPF, MPF only) can be generated algorithmically from the corresponding CDs)
        • - "sideways" derivative concepts
          • * situation concepts (whole hierarchy)
          • * specimen (whole hierarchy)
          • * disposition and structure classes for medicinal products (derived from their counterpart in the substance hierarchy)
      • 2) Some derivative concepts require editing, but possibly less than essential concepts
        • coordinated concepts (e.g., X due to Y: X and Y are CORE, but X due to Y is [partially] derivative)
    • B -- Essential concepts (CORE)
      • * atomic
      • * primitive
      • * frequently used
      • * important for some reason other than frequency (e.g., rare disease)
  2. Found limited evidence of use of"on examination" concepts in VSAC value sets ( – requires UMLS license)

    For example:

    • 162930007 On examination - ankylosing spondylitis chest deformity (disorder)
      • in measure CMS249v2 (Government program)
      • comment: no equivalent finding in the same value set
    • 162769006 On examination - Underweight (finding) and 275947003 On examination - overweight (finding)
      • in measure CMS69v8 (Government program)
      • comment: interestingly, the corresponding finding is also part of the value set (248342006 Underweight (finding); 238131007 Overweight (finding)), so losing the O/E concept would not be too detrimental