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Location: Amba Hotel, Canterbury Room

  • London local time: Wednesday 11th April 09:00-12:30 (break 10:30-11:00)

  • Meeting in UTC time: Wednesday 11th April 08:00-11:30 (break 09:30-10:00)

  • Meeting details: https://snomed.zoom.us/j/231295710

 

Meeting Details:  https://snomed.zoom.us/j/231295710

Information on using Zoom: Starting with ZOOM


Meeting recording advice:

Please note the recording has a lot of echo present so it while it will be uploaded the notes for this meeting have be done in a bit more depth to assist those who weren't present. 

Attendees

Unable to attend

Minutes:

  • Page will be updated with summary notes from meeting.
  • Please see recording for full details.


Objectives

Discussion items (In draft)

ItemDescriptionOwnerNotesAction
1WelcomeCathy Richardson
  • Attendees list

 

2Apologies/conflicts of interest
  • Apologies as noted
  • Conflicts
 
3Administrative
  • Minutes of meetings
  • Day/time of meeting given daylight saving changes - no change to day or time.
  • Meeting notifications - will remain as calendar invites to CMAG members.
  • Members with terms ending in 2018 - Cathy Richardson will touch base with the MF representatives in the coming month for those CMAG members whose terms end in 2018 to ascertain if the current member is being nominated to continue or if a new CMAG representative is being put forward. As per the process set out in the AG manual.
 
4Action ListCathy Richardson
  • CMAG Action List -nil actions listed.
  • Thank you to those who provided feedback or are in the process of providing feedback on the Extensions Guide.
 
5Member Forum update
  • AG, CEO, CRG, Genomics JIC standards and updates provided.
  • DL changes for the product roles presented to group
  • MF Subcommittee updates and processes discussed. The framework developed by the CMAG will be leveraged by the Member Forum.
  • Update on the pre-conference Terminology Management workshop provided. For more information please contact Rory Davidson
  • Member survey feedback discussed using small groups to help explore this further.
  • 2019 SNOMED International Draft work plan discussed.
  • Member Forum Workshops on topics such as ICD11 implementations, Member sharing pages, new data protection rules for Europe, translation (user group exists) and cancer synoptic reporting.

 

6Quality Initative
  • Standing item
  • Update provided by Jim Case.
    • High level overview of the process:
      • Work involves looking at a sub-hierarchy, identifying intermediate primitives and modelling patterns.
      • A template that provides a base pattern for how content in a sub-hierarchy should be modelled is developed and run against the content to check conformance.
      • If content conforms the proximal primitive parent modelling approach is applied. If content does not confirm, an author makes the correction.
      • Iterative process, resolving low hanging fruit first with more complex left to second iteration.
    • Multi-year project.
    • First hierarchy being focused on is Clinical Findings (followed by Procedures). Within the CF hierarchy there are 870 sub-hierarchies to be looked at. Hoping to improve sufficiently defined content from 55% to about 90%.
    • Templates that are developed will be made available. Will be embedded within the Managed Service Platform at some future point in time.
    • Planned as part of the reporting process to provide statistics on the improvements.
    • Release notes will advise on the areas worked on. A dynamically updated page would need to be discussed internally.
  • Request for the CMAG to provide feedback on the specific sub areas that would be important for members to be prioritised. Cathy Richardson to set up an action item for the group. The group will be given longer than 3 weeks to respond given the size of the work item.
    • Stakeholder engagement was discussed but is not being progressed at a group level.
  • The following link wasn't provided at the meeting but the subpages located here will provide those interested with information on this work: QI Project
  • The value of frequency data was discussed and recognised.

7Editorial Guidance revamp update
  • Main issue with current document was identified as people having difficultly finding things. Goal of revamp: improve layout, more consistently illustrated, an order that is more efficient and practical to support work activities. Content has not had substantive changes.
  • Recording shows the new layout.
  • Extent of external input to be determined, expected to be sort later in April.
  • Changes do occur given internal work (as required), such as the QI project.

8EAG decisions - User impact
  • Standing item
  • The current EAG focus is strategic and tactical, looking at internal structure issues e.g. context and coming up with a long term plan to manage this. CMAG input will not be required until later when the impact on countries needs to be considered.

9Extension content development
  • Linda presented some mock ups on landing pages for Members information. This would include a generic information page and another for country specific terminology information (catering for 2 different audiences).
  • Presentation was given to the Member Forum and they provided feedback. Further work will now be undertaken by Canada. Timeline yet to be set. The presentation for this was not shown during the meeting, however is now attached to this page.
  • This item will sit with the Member Forum with the CMAG getting updates.
  • The potential for use of CMAG pages when at a later point in time countries are looking at active content collaboration had been raised as an option during the Member Forum discussions. Cathy Richardson to follow up with the person who raised it.

10Member pre-release processes
11Under care of <professional> (finding) content: Inactivation proposal
  • Proposal to inactivate Under care of <professional> content and where applicable and agreed demote the content to the applicable extension(s)
  • Under care of 'professional' (finding) content
  • Topic presented, please see details and due date on the topic page.

12Transport accidents: Inactivation proposal
  • Proposal to inactivate specific transportation-related concepts from the |Event| hierarchy
  • IHTSDO-1071 - Getting issue details... STATUS
  • Vehicle accident (event) content (Presentation moved to this page).
  • Topic presented, please see details and due date on the topic page.

13Pre-coordination patterns

14Closing Plenary bulletsALL
  • Please see closing plenary slides.
 
15Any other businessALL
  • CMAG discussion input on QI as noted above.
  • Question raised on work done by others members and by the international team and potential for duplication and impact on extensions. Topic discussed. The discussions occurring in the MAG and Terminology Management Workshop (held pre-conference) for potential future improvements which covered visibility, more frequent releases and more frequent promotions are expected to reduce this issue. the multibrowser also looked at. No further action required in this group.
  • Next meeting: 8th May 2018 2000UTC

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3 Comments

  1. I might have a conflict tomorrow and I'm not sure if I'll be able to make the CMAG, but a comment on Agenda item 12.
    I tentatively support this, from what I can see. Though I'd be interested to see how the concepts were identified. The numbers are a bit mixed (IHTSDO-1071 mentions 693, slides say 255). Also consider expanding to concepts that are defined by these. For example, if you were removing 420144008 | Laundry machinery accident in water transport (event) |... You might as well also remove 215722007 | Injury in water transport caused by laundry machinery, water skier injured (disorder) |...

    This content has been a blight on the quality/reputation of SNOMED CT for years (as amusing as it is). 

  2. Hi Matt,  Thank you for these comments. 

    The concepts manifested through a Mapping Service Team quality assurance project that compared SNOMED International’s and the UKTC’s maps from SNOMED CT to ICD-10.  While concepts came from the three hierarchies involved:  Clinical finding, Situation with explicit context, and Events, we found that the transport accidents from the event hierarchy were causing discrepancies even though the concepts were classification-derived.  So while there may be many more concepts that could be included in the nonsensical category, the 255 concepts proposed here for inactivation are only a subset of those concepts reviewed in the mapping project.  Concepts that were somewhat understandable and theoretically possible were not included at this time but thought to warrant a further review, dependent upon the outcome of this initial request. 

    You have a great eye for detail!  The 255 concepts are on a spreadsheet ready to be inactivated if this is the consensus of the group.  The 693 (which I’ve added in the ticket) is the number of descendants of 418161006 |Vehicle accident (event)|.   Not all of these have been reviewed.  However, when looking at concepts involved in the mapping project, it was found that there were transport accidents outside of |Vehicle accident|, so the scope needed to be widened to 418019003 |Accidental event (event)| which has 2794 descendants. 

    I agree with your comment about the corresponding concepts defined by these from the event hierarchy.

    I’m happy to look into any more questions you have.  There are other improvements needed in the transport accident arena; this is the most obvious. 

  3. Hi Cathy,

    For the QA Initiative, Canada has the following priorities: mental health, chronic disease management, 

    Thank you!