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Antenatal problem or antenatal complication? /projects/SCTF/issues/SCTF-86

Background: See Jira issue: /projects/SCTF/issues/SCTF-86


Camilla Wiberg Danielsen The word "with" in the FSNs are also confusing. What does it mean?  "due to", "causing", "together with", "and"?

Louise Bie The issue of antenatal complication/problem was raised in 2017 due to the lack of specificity. It would be a good idea to vote for this issue on the page

Yongsheng Gao Submit a CRS to clarify the meaning. There is work going on in Snomed Int. regarding periods of life and making the meaning of the word "with" clear as "co-occurent". But that doesn´t mean that existing content always mean that. It is not possible to review all the content with "x with y". There was a project, but it was to too big. Therefore: submit a CRS for clarification regarding "with": Does it mean co-occurent or due to? The same goes for 199890004 |Short cord with antenatal problem (disorder)|. It probably comes from ICD-10.

Translation should be faithful to the FSN. "Problem" in the FSN should be translated as such. In case of future clarification, the translation should be updated.

Submit a CRS to clarify the meaning

Camilla Wiberg Danielsen ICD-10 and ICD-11 have "affected by"

Ole Våge submit CRS regarding 199890004 |Short cord with antenatal problem (disorder)| and children

@ALL: Vote for the tracker (see Jira ticket SCTF-86)

Camilla Wiberg Danielsen Will add a comment regarding "with" in the Jira issue /projects/SCTF/issues/SCTF-86

CRS request submitted: #784849

2 Translation of 270472006 |Maternal concern (finding)| : /projects/SCTF/issues/SCTF-87

Background: See Jira issue: /projects/SCTF/issues/SCTF-87

Louise Bie A concept refelcting Anxiety in the Finding hiearchy, not Anxiety disorder in the Disorder hierarchy. A very relevant concept for mothers. Regarding a concept in the Situation hierarchy, 160332003 |Family history: Anxiety state (situation)| could be relevant. Anxiety can have to meanings or translation into Danish (and other languages): anxious>engstelse, anxiety>angst

Yongsheng Gao The patient is the subject of record by default. The parent would be the parent of the patient/subject of record. So it is the supporting/care of the children. There is a terminological challenge: These subhiearchies can refer to a relationship of two subjects.Which one is the subject of record in a mother-child relationship? The description should be clear. A recommendation is to raise a ticket to review this subhiearchy - based on the subject of record and intended meaning. Two possible interpretations: 1 Mother has concerns 2 The subject, who is a mother, has concerns regarding parenting

Ole Våge will raise a CRS ticket

CRS request has been made: #784848

3Homographs in National Editions/Extensions: /projects/SCTF/issues/SCTF-88

Background: /projects/SCTF/issues/SCTF-88

Frank Geier A challenge using the English descritptions and description IDs in the German language reference set to avoid duplicates. But this is difficult for other German speaking countries (Austria, Switzerland) where Authoring Platform is being used.

Feikje Hielkema-Raadsveld The Netherlands have encountered this problem as microorganisms were translated early. Using Termspace tool, English descriptions were marked at preferred in Dutch reference set. But when switching to Managed Service, this was not allowed, so a lot descriptions were created automatically. However, this problem will emerge again with the creation of a Latin language reference set. A result from the Description File, which contains two columns: the langauge and the language reference set. This causes the whole issue. Resolving this issue might cause a change of the RF2-format.

Anne Randorff Højen It is important to keep in mind that the language reference set is a term preference reference set

Feikje Hielkema-Raadsveld The language column states language, like nl, not the country, which would be required if it is going to be used as a language.

Anne Randorff Højen The context of the language reference set could be a country. The Editorial Group could discuss, but a clear description of the current limitations should be provided.

Yongsheng Gao A challenge with dialects, because description files only contain two letter codes for languages. A language reference set is necessary to distinguish between for exampel US and GB English. Another complexity in transation when a word is borrowed. Two possible approaches 1) The technical efficient way:The term is just a string and can belong to several langauges. 2) Disregard the other languages and just copy the term with a new description ID. More discussions are need to know which one is the best approach. Also, with annotations, it could be possible with a language tag.

Anne Randorff Højen There are clearlytechnical limitaions here. 

Yongsheng Gao We need a common approach in translation, and secondly, how can this be implemented.

Anne Randorff Højen A interoperability issue also, when looking at Latin terms across languages.

Pero Grgic Is it possible to copy description ids into different language reference sets?

Anne Randorff Højen Yes, it is possible BUT then the editions should be dependant (module dependencies)

4Superscript and subscript: Follow up

Ole Våge Standard Norway didn´t know of any ISO standards where subscript and superscript are being dealt with.

Vegard Storsul Opdahl We are doing some testing in Norway. Unicode doesn´t support superscript, but contains some superscript variant, with numbers and signs. 

Symbols like ^ and _ are distracting and doesn´t support retriavability, e.g. NAD^+^-nukleosidasemangel. Examples such as  ᴬgamma-delta-beta-⁰-talassemi shows that the raised A is readable, but the raised 0 (zero) looks like an O (letter). The + is more readable in  H⁺/K⁺-transporterende ATPase than other symbols. One concern is the subscript of numbers, which become very very small and almost unreadable: fosfolipase A₂-mangel. But you get a search match. Two different concepts only separated by superscripts are 69184008 |Blood group antigen M^e^ (substance)| (represented in Norwegian as  blodtypeantigen Mᵉ)  and 115888002 |Blood group antigen Me (substance)| (represented in Norwegian as blodtypeantigen Me). The tiny superscipt e is the only difference in the descriptions.

We are concerned about the readability. 

Camilla Wiberg Danielsen 

How to find them?

Vegard Storsul Opdahl 

Swagger. So symbols are needed to identify the cases.

Vegard Storsul Opdahl will post examples in the existing Jira issue.

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