2024-10-23 - Translation User Group Meeting Business Meeting Seoul on-site and online

Frank Geier : The linguistic issues are the most important from the framework, such as finding the preferred term, false friends, etc. Regarding conceptual and ontological challnges, these are more like quality assurance (QA) issues. Regarding cultural challanges: Is SNOMED CT an international terminology? Residuals from an Anglocentric past? Should there be an agreement on what is really international?

STEFAN SCHULZ Endorses the framework. Important to give feedback to Snomed Int. when the meaning of concepts is ambigous. In this sense, the translator doesn´t have a traditional role, but more of QA. The lack of text definitions is a weakness, not only for translators, but for SNOMED CT as a product.

Hynek Kruzik  Poor support of tooling makes translation difficult, both initial translation and maintainance. EHDS will requiere translations in many European languages, at least of relevant value sets.

Frank Geier Support the tooling issue. It´s a huge issue. Would like to ask Snomed Int. if there is a new tool.

Katharine Priest No knowledge of a new translation tool. Will try to find out.

Ole Våge Snomed Int. has made a presentation about a AI translation tool. But what we need is a tool which covers the whole process of translation, not just one of the steps. But the issue of tooling should be raised in Member Forum.

Marie-Alexandra Lambot This brings back the issue of translation templates, which should be picked up again. These exits for English when making concepts. These also help consistency and AI. And also of interface terms and forbidden terms.

Elze de Groot The Netherlands have tried the new AI tool.

Examples:

Emma Hultén Wound and ulcer: one of the lingusitic challenges. The languages don´t relate to eachother 1:1. The translation into Swedish would render "sår" in both cases. So the problem is not unclear meaning of the concept. The etiology is not included in the word. One strategy would be to use the preferred term as a kind of FSN which states the etiology. However, this would depart from the rule that the preferred term should be the term used by clinicians, so it´s not a good solutoin. Now, there are duplicates in Swedish translations because of this problem. So it´s an issue of knowledge of SNOMED CT and picking the right concept for a value set, for example. Just picking a word like "sår" when creating a value set is problematic, because you don´t distinguish between the underlying difference between traumatic and non-traumatic. 

Mikko Härkönen How to translate "condition"? In Finnish, there are at least two different terms.

Marie-Alexandra Lambot The problem of insufficiency and failure, which goes back to ICD-9 and ICD-10 with renal insufficiency and renal failure. In French, we don´t really express the difference even though we understand the difference. Previously, I´ve suggested to forbid one of the concepts.

Camilla Wiberg Danielsen The tooling should be helpful in cases as these, by adding more context in different languages. We can´t change the languages, and the concepts are valid concepts.

Hynek Kruzik This highlightes the missing text definitions. In Czech, there are different approaches, such as adding the English term.

Irena Rubesova A different challenge are concepts such as 'gastrontestinal tract'. In Czech, 'liver' is a part of it, in English not.

Elisabeth Serrot There are ways of measuring the difference between renal insufficiency and failure, and this information would be useful to add to the concept.

Ole Våge At least four different approaches: 1 Avoid the concept if possible 2 Add text definitions 3 English term in brackets 4 Term represent meaning (FSN-like)

STEFAN SCHULZ Another approach: linking to an authoritative source

Emma Hultén The question of renal insufficiency and failure is quite different from ulcer and wound. The latter are very clear.

@Sophie Klopfenstein Support the idea of linking to sources. Sometimes ignoring one of the concepts would be a solution.

Frank Geier We have translators, we have domain experts, but sometimes the challenges in translated are related to very specific concepts which clinicians might not know.

We are terminologists and we lack clinical knowledge. Where do we go then? Do we need an international forum for areas with these kind of difficulties?

Hynek Kruzik There are European associations for the different specialities. Not necessary to create new structures.

STEFAN SCHULZ Or use students. Or Medline or PubMed, where there are bilingual abstracts and healines.

Frank Geier Maybe we need a joint effort of finding good sources.

Joint meeting with Joint Advisory Group for item #5 (scroll down to find the Joint Advisor Group agenda) in room 8+9+10, Zoom: https://snomed.zoom.us/j/535528933?pwd=clh0d0tPZ1lZcmltaUkzWWlYZmhMdz09  .

After this item, we will move back to room 7 (and the normal Zoom for Translation User Group)