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April 4th 2023
- Yongsheng Gao Frank Geier François Macary Elze de Groot Peter G. Williams Alejandro Lopez Osornio Louise Bie Anne Randorff Højen Miroslav Zvolský Vegard Storsul Opdahl Mikko Härkönen Eva Sabajova Patrick McLaughlin Anne-Dominique Pham Dr. Ganesh Elisabeth Giesenhagen Fadhil Muhammad Jesse Efron Michael Chu
Yongsheng: There were only two values until 2017: Entire term case sensitive (CS) and Only initial character case insensitive (cI). The third value, Entire term case insensitive (ci) was introduce due to needs in the international edition, where English terms were/are written with initial upper case. For the rules, see table in Editorial Guide: Case Significance The purpose of the rules
is to preserve the meaning of the concept when considering changing the case.
Frank: Instead of meaning, isn´t it rather a grammar rule?
Peter: Is it always about meaning? Regarding the concept 315374006 |Born in Australia|
the meaning wouldn´t change if Australia was written with lower case, born in australia. It is a question of aesthetics.
François: In the Common French Translation, there are only two values
Elze: How it is shown
is an important user case. The national guidelines should address this.
Ole: Are there three "axes" in this discussion: Aestetics (but isn´t that an implementation issue?), semantics and grammar rules? Should
we choose one of the axes?
Elze: Keep all three axes.
Peter: The French approach of simplifying is a sensible choice.
Alejandro: Case sensitivity is rarely used in implementation. Rather start with the use case instead of the rules
Louise: Many case sensitivity errors in the national extension, supports the French approach.
Yongsheng: The value
Initial character case
sensitivity is not required for languages in which, in general, terms starts with lower case. The rules are based on conventions for the international edition.
Alejandro: Possibly started with RF1 before 2008. It was called initial capital status, referring to the first costumer. This changed when RF1 became RF2.
Frank: The rules were
understandable, but not the reason
Anne: There are not many questions regarding this topic in the courses. Maybe expand on what we teach in his areas
; Let the learners reflect.
Peter: Initial character or initial letter? Simple approach is first letter, however, it will increase complexity. The issue stems from the Dutch translation.
Elze: In the Dutch translation, when using an English term, the simple quotation mark is being used. So the first character would be a quotation mark.
Assigning entire term insensitive as a default because it is the most common value, however, this would be dependant upon the language. It´s possbile as a rule in the tool.
Elze: Rather ignore the initial character as a rule
Yongsheng: Possible in a national extension. Automation is possible, where exceptions are treated as exceptions.
Peter: We need to be consistent in saying initial character, not initial letter. Rules are being created from work with the Dutch extension.
Ole: Follow-up in TUG meeting.
|2||Web pages and tooling for translation|
Anne: There is a focus of the implementation team on how to provide information about translations more accessible. Information is already available on the Confluence site, but can be hard to find. The implementation team propose new web pages for translations, but needs help from member countries with providing information.
François: Good idea, also add multiple NRC-translations such as French and German.
Ole: The Translation User Group supports the new design and would be happy to provide necessary information.
Snomed Int. is working on a survey in order to understand the needs and how to provide a better service. Tooling depends on the needs, so it is important to
understand these with input from the Translation User Group.
Ole: Welcomes the effort, which is highly appreciated. It is important to take into consideration both the translation project itself and the maintainance afterwards: There are different approaches and needs.
Elze: Also experience with existing tools that are being used by different countries.
Alejandro: It could be useful with a comparing table for the tools
Germany did this and might be able to share the catalogue.
Anne: The implementation team will continue to work with the survey.
|3||Integrating editorial decisions in the translation work||Vegard Storsul Opdahl|
|4||Providing examples for translation learning: A case||Ole Våge|
A subgroup of the translation user group has worked on what are the difficult cases of translation, proposing some categories: grouper concepts, ambigous FSNs, culture-specific concepts, different language granularity, false friends.
A template was presented for the case of "digit of hand"/"finger": 1 Present the case,
2 What is difficult (with screen shots),
3 How to deal with ith(translators report to the project owner) and
4 Possible translation strategies.
Is it helpful and should it be shared on the web page or linked to from the elearning pathway?
Belgian NRC: Yes, useful, but also more problematic: There is more vocabulary in English than in French.
Ole: How to resolve this, which would be difference in language granularity, such as neck, which could render both "hals" and "nakke" in Norwegian (and in Dutch)
Alejandro: Regarding digit of hand and finger: Maybe there is a need for a definition.
Ole: Then the Translation Project Owner should reach out to Snomed Int., asking for a definition?
Anne: This would definitely contribute to the elearning course, as a ebook of these cases, adding processes (such as contacting Snomed Int. when necessary)
Ole: These cases are added to a spread sheet and being discussed.
We´ve finished the revision of Guidelines for Translation and Guidelines of Management of Translation. There are other documents, such as of quality metrics for translation, which were developed several years ago.
Alejandro: It would be useful to have a look at the quality assurance framwork, which was developed about 10-15 years ago. The idea was to create a toolkit with different metrics for the quality of translation: How to measure quality. It probably requieres an update.
Difficult to conclude if the toolkit docuement should be updated.
Anne: Snomed Int. will share the toolkit document with the TUG and address the issue when the members have had a chance to look at it.
|Content Report Table|