SNOMED International is seeking input on the use by members of the international occupation content. A list of international content: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XvnAYkCOSbuh0tTFtss4odeGCv3utVkVcq0D27hRhbQ/edit?usp=sharing
To determine the international applicability of this content would you please comment in the spreadsheet:
• Which of these occupations are relevant within your country?
• Are the concepts that are relevant in your country currently be used?
Would you also advise if this content be useful if a “base” concept was present? For example, draughts-person. Comments can be made below.
Please advise if you will require additional time to complete this. Due date is 24 July 2021.
Thank you for your input.
Relevant documents
Actions
| Date | Requested action | Requester(s) | Response required by: | Comments |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 17 June 2021 | Please see instructions above. | Please post your comments as requested above. Discussion comments can be made as comments. |
Links
Country response
| Country | Date | Response | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Denmark | June 18th 2021 | We have not translated all occupation concepts and to my knowledge they are not in use in Denmark. | ||
| US | 20200706 | No evidence of use of any of the occupation codes in value sets from VSAC, which makes it difficult to comment on relevance for the US. This said, a few value sets use occupation codes (e.g., Care Team Member Function), but none of the codes from this particular list are. The list above is some kind of a subset and it is not entirely clear where it comes from. Is is one for real?
One more thought: Wondering whether we should align SNOMED CT to other existing standards in this domain, e.g., International Standard Classification of Occupations from the International Labour Organization. | ||
| Sweden | 20210708 | As far as we know the occupations in the list are not used in Sweden. | ||
| Canada | 20210720 | We do publish a Healthcare provider subset which is a subset of occupations. From that perspective, we know that occupations in healthcare are often specific to jurisdictions. CIHI is often used for their healthcare resources. For non-healthcare occupations, we refer to the National Occupational Classification published by Government of Canada that provides the "generic" occupations that are available in Canada: https://noc.esdc.gc.ca/ The list provided seems to include outdated content (milkman) or too specific occupations ( X draughtsman ). It would be worthed to clean it. | ||
| UK | 20210725 | Most of these codes, however not all, are used in primary care in UK, however we do not have access to secondary care data and possibly usage there is different. We had a recent content change request asking for a change of the occupations to make them non gendered, for example police officer not policeman, firefighter not fireman. In UK we have Standard Occupational Classification : https://www.ons.gov.uk/methodology/classificationsandstandards/standardoccupationalclassificationsoc which also references ISCO (International Standard Classification of Occupations): https://www.ilo.org/public/english/bureau/stat/isco/isco08/ There is also a well-known, shorter than SOC, list of professions used by insurance companies, called car insurance job picker, where each occupation is gender neutral with some exceptions that have both -man and -woman versions (postman/postwoman, sportsman/sportswoman, draughtsman/draughtswoman, warehouseman/warehousewoman) : https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/insurance/car-insurance-job-picker/ Our preference would be to have occupations either non gendered (eg police officer or -person) or where it is not possible, maybe to include both genders (postman/postwoman). | ||
| New Zealand | 20210726 | Stats NZ and the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) have joint classification for occupation that we use throughout our health system: the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO). It would be useful for us to have SNOMED terms which align with these. We also have an NZ specific list for roles i Health care that are new Zealand specific so would not be looking to add these to the International version. No work has as yet been undertaken to attempt to map ANZSCO to SNOMED international terms but it will no doubt happen at some stage as the data is collected in our healthcare systems. As with the UK our preference is for gender neutral occupation descriptors. There SNOMD International list should be cleaned up to align with the International Standard Classification of Occupation however I do understand there is some variation between countries as to what registration/certification/qualification is required for certain occupations. Perhaps these could be locally identified rather than through the SNOMED terminology? | ||
| Member countries without a CMAG rep |
CMAG response
| Date | CMAG Response | Next steps |
|---|---|---|
2 Comments
Matt Cordell
What is the scope of the concepts selected in the spreadsheet.(There's over 3000 subtypes of 14679004|Occupation (occupation)|.I've just realised they all contain "man" so the request is really about creating gender neutral terms?
I think if this is going to happen, just keep the same concepts rather than induce a lot of churn/impact relative to the value.
ie. create a gender neutral FSN e.g. "Police officer" for the existing concepts "Policeman". (Maybe with "Policewoman" synonym too).
At least in Australian English, there may/maynot be updated terms, and some might not be widely recognised.
ie. Fisherman is still likely used much more than "fisher", and I'm not sure "fisherperson" is used.
Impacts on translations for gendered languages should also be considered.
As an aside - Australia uses the concepts <<223366009|Healthcare professional (occupation)| as part of our national service registration program.
(I think NZ has a similar program and uses the content too).
There's gendered terms in there e.g. "nursing sister". AU retired some of these already.
Cathy Richardson
Olivier Bodenreider- your finding of Batman was an interesting one
. I did find this (sorry for the source used, I didn't see an "official" one) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(military) Cheers, Cathy.